Defibrilators

Post a reply


This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.
Smilies
:slhuh: :slpe: :slhat: :slt: :sltm: :slw: :slbe: :slh: :slsix: :slbi: :slr: :slsa: :sleye: :slgo: :slst: :slshh: :slyr: :sldoh: :slhi: :slsic: :slme: :slrol: :slch: :slcup: :slwi: :slnak: :slz: :slno: :slsad: :slcud: :slsp: :slcr: :slzi: :slhd: :slhehe: :slre: :slhoo: :slheh: :slby: :slclap: :slwo: :slbl: :slshd: :slbli: :D :) :( :o :? 8) :x :P :wink: :| :n198: :n196: :n172: :n155: :n151:
View more smilies

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Defibrilators

by Race Track » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:40 pm

At the end of the day, the decision NOT to include them has been made. Unless the world turns over i doubt that this decision will be reversed. It would have to take A LOT of incidents of this nature, where TO's are first on scene to justify it.

by Jock Abroad » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:05 am

While I love the idea we may be able to save a life by carrying this kit, where does it end, should we be carry Hydraulic cutting gear as well perhaps?

At the moment they remove the tools from our TOVs as we're not recovery agents. I can imagine there being heated discussion about our actual role and why we are taking on other services responsibilities?

The idea is that we provide traffic management and a safe working area for the other proffessionals?

Or will the Defib be for our personal use, just like we were briefed for the fire blanket and the first aid kit :?:

by slabber » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:05 pm

The Bone wrote:Charl,
I now think its best left to them that can, and have the kit and experience to make the call.
Lets respect their scope of expertise, and keep them safe on the network.
and help if asked.

Thanks Charl H
Personally, I've been trained in AED use for 6 years, and if a thick biff like me can use one, anyone can :wink:

by The Bone » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:53 pm

Charl,
I now think its best left to them that can, and have the kit and experience to make the call.
Lets respect their scope of expertise, and keep them safe on the network.
and help if asked.

Thanks Charl H

by PavementPizza » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:02 pm

Some people I know have just been sent for training on their use...

by Charl_Hunter » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:52 pm

The Bone wrote:Charl
I thought a de-fib not used just to shock but to allow monitoring of rythm's to take place so you can see how the patient is fairing, taking into account all the other presentable facts?
How much training would you need to do this?
Would it be suitable for the H/A ?
Sorry about all the questions but I have no clue.
Right how technical do you want me to get? (feel free to take it to PM if you want any further info)

Basically an AED does just shock. Some of them have a built in screen that allows you to see one view of the heart. However that only gives you a vague idea of the hearts rhythm and screens are never diagnostic quality because of the filters set on them, and also it isn't on paper with the measurements etc etc (although you can diagnose lots of things without squared paper lol). To give an idea of perspective, a full ecg is called a 12 lead because it gives 12 different views of the heart, the screen on an AED is giving just 1.

Yes a lot of 'defibrillators' that the ambulance service use are machines that are actually multi purpose monitors that can do lots of things. For example the ones we use have, NIBP (blood pressure) Spo2, ETco2, 3 lead monitoring, 12 lead ecg, telemitary, AED, Manual defib and the potential to 'pace' a patient.

How much training would you need to do this? Well to actually obtain an ecg not that much, I could probably describe where to put the stickers over the net and you'd not be far wrong however interpreting is a different game and is basically the more of them you see the better you get (to give you an idea on my paramedic course we need to be able to recognise and interpret 41 different rhythms and that is just scratching the surface!)

An AED is simple to use, and is more or less self explanitory and yes HATOs could be trained to use one and carry one with out too much trouble. Whether you come across enough people to need them, well, from what has been said it seems not, but you only need to need one once for it to be worthwhile.

Sorry for having gone off the beaten track somewhat. I am in training school mode this week!

Any questions and I will do my best to answer

by slabber » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:12 pm

Jock Abroad wrote:Wot he said ^

In our current role with limited driver training, not particularly likely to be first, at least not often enough to justify cost, weight and space in the TOV.
I'm not sticking up for AEDs but most modern AEDs are no bigger than the large water containers we carry in the TOV.

by Northern Lad » Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:46 pm

Never needed to use anything like this in 2 years of patrolling.

I'm with Snafu on this one.

by Jock Abroad » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:43 am

Wot he said ^

In our current role with limited driver training, not particularly likely to be first, at least not often enough to justify cost, weight and space in the TOV.

by Guinness Man » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:41 am

AED's are only of any benifit if they are availiable within a couple of minutes of someone becoming ill. As we are unlikely to be on scene within this time I believe the benifit of us carrying them is minimal. There is a case for them to be availiable in shopping centres, rail stations etc.

by TheWanderer » Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:14 am

SNAFU -

AEDs are in use by normal staff in railway stations, shopping centres, sports centres etc and are used prior to arrivl of ambo.

The motorway is technically more remote to the ambulance service than a centre in town where they'll have a vehicle on station or on standby nearby. We have loads of people who pull over on the shoulder for "medical" issues so it would make sense that we could realistically come across someone slumped over the steering wheel of their vehicle and be with them for some time prior to arrival of ambulance due to restricted motorway junctions etc hindering them from gaining access to the network in the first place.

by slabber » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:08 am

snafu wrote:No No No please we are traffic officers not paramedics. What else should we carry, IV fluids, insulin, adrenaline :?:

Should we be equipped to start cutting people out of wrecks as we may arrive before the fire service. :?:

Should we start carrying breath test kits so we can have a numpty bang to rights even before the BiB turn up :?:

I think not :evil:
Didn't mean to get your pulse racing!! (excuse the pun!!) I've no interest in using the AED at work, I'm fully trained to use it on first aid duties and that's all I want to do :wink:

by slabber » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:08 am

snafu wrote:No No No please we are traffic officers not paramedics. What else should we carry, IV fluids, insulin, adrenaline :?:

Should we be equipped to start cutting people out of wrecks as we may arrive before the fire service. :?:

Should we start carrying breath test kits so we can have a numpty bang to rights even before the BiB turn up :?:

I think not :evil:
Didn't mean to get your pulse racing!! (excuse the pun!!) I've no interest in using the AED at work, I'm fully trained to use it on first aid duties and that's all I want to do :wink:

by snafu » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:18 pm

No No No please we are traffic officers not paramedics. What else should we carry, IV fluids, insulin, adrenaline :?:

Should we be equipped to start cutting people out of wrecks as we may arrive before the fire service. :?:

Should we start carrying breath test kits so we can have a numpty bang to rights even before the BiB turn up :?:

I think not :evil:

by slabber » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:57 pm

The Bone wrote:Charl
I thought a de-fib not used just to shock but to allow monitoring of rythm's to take place so you can see how the patient is fairing, taking into account all the other presentable facts?
How much training would you need to do this?
Would it be suitable for the H/A ?
Sorry about all the questions but I have no clue.
The automated external defibrillator, I've been trained to use through the Red Cross, is a 2 hr course that's valid for 12 months. The machine actually talks you through what you need to do, it's a pretty amazing piece of kit

Top