Defibrilators

for Recruitment and General Issues

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Guinness Man
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Post: # 31837Post Guinness Man
Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:41 am

AED's are only of any benifit if they are availiable within a couple of minutes of someone becoming ill. As we are unlikely to be on scene within this time I believe the benifit of us carrying them is minimal. There is a case for them to be availiable in shopping centres, rail stations etc.

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Jock Abroad
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Post: # 31839Post Jock Abroad
Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:43 am

Wot he said ^

In our current role with limited driver training, not particularly likely to be first, at least not often enough to justify cost, weight and space in the TOV.
Speed is not a cause, it is a contributory factor. It's incompetent driving that kills!

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Northern Lad
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Post: # 31844Post Northern Lad
Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:46 pm

Never needed to use anything like this in 2 years of patrolling.

I'm with Snafu on this one.
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slabber
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Post: # 31851Post slabber
Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:12 pm

Jock Abroad wrote:Wot he said ^

In our current role with limited driver training, not particularly likely to be first, at least not often enough to justify cost, weight and space in the TOV.
I'm not sticking up for AEDs but most modern AEDs are no bigger than the large water containers we carry in the TOV.

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Charl_Hunter
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Post: # 31871Post Charl_Hunter
Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:52 pm

The Bone wrote:Charl
I thought a de-fib not used just to shock but to allow monitoring of rythm's to take place so you can see how the patient is fairing, taking into account all the other presentable facts?
How much training would you need to do this?
Would it be suitable for the H/A ?
Sorry about all the questions but I have no clue.
Right how technical do you want me to get? (feel free to take it to PM if you want any further info)

Basically an AED does just shock. Some of them have a built in screen that allows you to see one view of the heart. However that only gives you a vague idea of the hearts rhythm and screens are never diagnostic quality because of the filters set on them, and also it isn't on paper with the measurements etc etc (although you can diagnose lots of things without squared paper lol). To give an idea of perspective, a full ecg is called a 12 lead because it gives 12 different views of the heart, the screen on an AED is giving just 1.

Yes a lot of 'defibrillators' that the ambulance service use are machines that are actually multi purpose monitors that can do lots of things. For example the ones we use have, NIBP (blood pressure) Spo2, ETco2, 3 lead monitoring, 12 lead ecg, telemitary, AED, Manual defib and the potential to 'pace' a patient.

How much training would you need to do this? Well to actually obtain an ecg not that much, I could probably describe where to put the stickers over the net and you'd not be far wrong however interpreting is a different game and is basically the more of them you see the better you get (to give you an idea on my paramedic course we need to be able to recognise and interpret 41 different rhythms and that is just scratching the surface!)

An AED is simple to use, and is more or less self explanitory and yes HATOs could be trained to use one and carry one with out too much trouble. Whether you come across enough people to need them, well, from what has been said it seems not, but you only need to need one once for it to be worthwhile.

Sorry for having gone off the beaten track somewhat. I am in training school mode this week!

Any questions and I will do my best to answer
Swatted

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PavementPizza
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Post: # 31872Post PavementPizza
Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:02 pm

Some people I know have just been sent for training on their use...
"I'm at MPxxx/x, I've got skid marks, any knowledge"

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The Bone
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Post: # 31879Post The Bone
Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:53 pm

Charl,
I now think its best left to them that can, and have the kit and experience to make the call.
Lets respect their scope of expertise, and keep them safe on the network.
and help if asked.

Thanks Charl H
Ooooofffff, you can't do that BOYO!!!!!!!

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slabber
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Post: # 31880Post slabber
Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:05 pm

The Bone wrote:Charl,
I now think its best left to them that can, and have the kit and experience to make the call.
Lets respect their scope of expertise, and keep them safe on the network.
and help if asked.

Thanks Charl H
Personally, I've been trained in AED use for 6 years, and if a thick biff like me can use one, anyone can :wink:

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Jock Abroad
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Post: # 31892Post Jock Abroad
Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:05 am

While I love the idea we may be able to save a life by carrying this kit, where does it end, should we be carry Hydraulic cutting gear as well perhaps?

At the moment they remove the tools from our TOVs as we're not recovery agents. I can imagine there being heated discussion about our actual role and why we are taking on other services responsibilities?

The idea is that we provide traffic management and a safe working area for the other proffessionals?

Or will the Defib be for our personal use, just like we were briefed for the fire blanket and the first aid kit :?:
Speed is not a cause, it is a contributory factor. It's incompetent driving that kills!

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Post: # 31920Post Race Track
Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:40 pm

At the end of the day, the decision NOT to include them has been made. Unless the world turns over i doubt that this decision will be reversed. It would have to take A LOT of incidents of this nature, where TO's are first on scene to justify it.

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